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	<title>Comments on: Getting a job in design in interesting times</title>
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	<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/</link>
	<description>An evolving design and communication story by Studio Pip and Co in Melbourne, Australia</description>
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		<title>By: Toward Hansen</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30806</link>
		<dc:creator>Toward Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 09:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-30806</guid>
		<description>Hi Owen, I couldn&#039;t agree more with searching wider than the name studios. Just recently I had the pleasure of meeting, sorry to to name drop, Mark Gowing, Mark&#039; s journey in design was working in magazines and education publishing, far from the the bling of websites like this ,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Owen, I couldn&#8217;t agree more with searching wider than the name studios. Just recently I had the pleasure of meeting, sorry to to name drop, Mark Gowing, Mark&#8217; s journey in design was working in magazines and education publishing, far from the the bling of websites like this ,</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-30788</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 02:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-30788</guid>
		<description>Hi Andrew,

I&#039;ve really enjoyed reading this article and the subsequent comments. My only contribution to this discussion is; why do all job-seeking advisories from professional, studio based designers centre on the student/graduate getting a &quot;studio&quot; design job? There is a myriad of work available for good young designers in industries seemingly unrelated to graphic design.

Consider this. While studying, my classmates and I received much the same advice on how to enter the workplace as you have divulged here. As we collectively neared the end of our postgraduate study, a job opportunity was advertised amongst our small student body of 17 budding young designers. The job was not with any reputable design studio, indeed, it wasn&#039;t with any studio at all. Subsequently, no-one applied for it except me. Imagine that! In a climate where a design studio vacancy can attract dozens or even hundreds of applicants, only one person applied for the job offered. I was successful in my application, and while I havn&#039;t got the adoration of my peers for landing &quot;the big one&quot; (a close friend of mine got that!) I can now confidently say that I am doing design work that 99% of my peers will never experience, and doing design that impacts on thousands of people all across the world.

The only misgiving I have is that so many of my former class mates (now almost 3 years out of uni) who are still trying to &#039;get in the door&#039; were never told about the possibility of being a graphic designer who doesn&#039;t work in a graphic design studio. Furthermore, we were never give any real advice on how to apply and be successful in a design interview that wasn&#039;t going to be run by designers. Discussing your work with a potential employer who is not a member of the elite design clique is a bit like taking a cold shower, outside, on a frosty winter morning. Most of the &#039;planned&#039; discussion you had in your head about the varying intricasies and vagueries of your work go right out the window, and one does feel rather naked without it.

So, in short, I would summarise with this. Look far and wide in your search for prospective employers; learn to talk candidly about your work and yourself; and for pity&#039;s sake, take the design theory and rhetoric with a large spoon of salt; after all, it&#039;s your ability as a designer to THINK that will serve you best, not your ability to regurgitate verbatim.

Good luck,

O</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Andrew,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve really enjoyed reading this article and the subsequent comments. My only contribution to this discussion is; why do all job-seeking advisories from professional, studio based designers centre on the student/graduate getting a &#8220;studio&#8221; design job? There is a myriad of work available for good young designers in industries seemingly unrelated to graphic design.</p>
<p>Consider this. While studying, my classmates and I received much the same advice on how to enter the workplace as you have divulged here. As we collectively neared the end of our postgraduate study, a job opportunity was advertised amongst our small student body of 17 budding young designers. The job was not with any reputable design studio, indeed, it wasn&#8217;t with any studio at all. Subsequently, no-one applied for it except me. Imagine that! In a climate where a design studio vacancy can attract dozens or even hundreds of applicants, only one person applied for the job offered. I was successful in my application, and while I havn&#8217;t got the adoration of my peers for landing &#8220;the big one&#8221; (a close friend of mine got that!) I can now confidently say that I am doing design work that 99% of my peers will never experience, and doing design that impacts on thousands of people all across the world.</p>
<p>The only misgiving I have is that so many of my former class mates (now almost 3 years out of uni) who are still trying to &#8216;get in the door&#8217; were never told about the possibility of being a graphic designer who doesn&#8217;t work in a graphic design studio. Furthermore, we were never give any real advice on how to apply and be successful in a design interview that wasn&#8217;t going to be run by designers. Discussing your work with a potential employer who is not a member of the elite design clique is a bit like taking a cold shower, outside, on a frosty winter morning. Most of the &#8216;planned&#8217; discussion you had in your head about the varying intricasies and vagueries of your work go right out the window, and one does feel rather naked without it.</p>
<p>So, in short, I would summarise with this. Look far and wide in your search for prospective employers; learn to talk candidly about your work and yourself; and for pity&#8217;s sake, take the design theory and rhetoric with a large spoon of salt; after all, it&#8217;s your ability as a designer to THINK that will serve you best, not your ability to regurgitate verbatim.</p>
<p>Good luck,</p>
<p>O</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Ashton</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-27744</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Ashton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 00:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-27744</guid>
		<description>Jase,

Thanks for your comments and thanks for not using an alias. We didn&#039;t write this post to have the student who didn&#039;t turn up or those who attended to make excuses. After attending a range of similar student talks, some patterns are forming and we felt that it better to respond, rather than letting another occasion pass. 

Maybe if one stayed at home in bed and played the sick card, one wouldn&#039;t have been so brutal, yet the visit stats for this post and comments say that my this exercise is worthwhile.

Overall, this common social pattern may underline that lack of structured critical discussion incorporated in communication courses. To our knowledge the School of Visual Art in New York offers one of the only masters course developed address design criticism. Imagine if every undergraduate course had a unit where professional projects are reviewed, discussed and analysed? I know many lecturers informally explore design criticism, yet a formal design criticism unit may assist emerging designers with doing the work and communicating the outcomes.

My design education was a limited one, however one thing that happened is that for two years, five days a week, I shared a studio with fifteen or so designers. Lots of talking took place and it prepared us to talk about our work, life, and discover the group dynamic and the art of conversation.

One pattern is the lack of dialogue, discussion or debate. Many students and professionals seem too shy, aloof, or maybe wary of saying the wrong thing to make a start with a discussion. When I was teaching at Swinburne it was a similar situation. There were exceptions – my German students and Tin&amp;Ed often engaged in lengthy discussions, which made for an interesting and worthwhile sessions.

There is a lot to be gained by bringing to a group a selection of prepared questions, issues or opinions for group discussion. In many instances it is often expected that the speaker kicks off the discussion, when it is the students who know the group better. 

Some presenters have a knack for inspiring discussion – like Sagmiester. When you look into why Sagmiester has the knack – you don’t have to look far – his websites, books and presentations have a tone that is open and conversation like and he has had this open approach for years. 

Most professional designers have little dialogue – a visit to their website will clarify this. May I suggest to prepare questions prior the session, attempt to understand the group’s dynamic and attempt playful sense of engagement will help the speaker to facilitate a discussion. Queen Elizabeth II was once asked how do you facilitate conversation with so many people. Her response – I meet many men and I have learned to start the conversation with asking them what they do, Men can’t help talking about themselves. Women seem to need no prompting according to HRM.

So in the absence of the studio environment and a design criticism culture:
— try to sit in on forums and session structured around discussion,
— try to develop a dialogue with as many peers as possible, maybe even be social with your peers,
— research the speaker and develop some questions (remember what Queen E said)
— during the session try bring to others into the discussion by inviting peers to comment, disagree
— don’t be afraid of asking the wrong questions or worry about asking the right questions.

Many students seem to be more focused on their life outside university, rather than incorporating design and their design peers in a new chapter of life. What is common with every designer I have encountered is that they have their version of a world of design, a way of living. 

Rather than making excuses on this forum for not being at my session, the questions I would be asking include: Why in an era of SMS, email and iphone and Blackberries that your peers or your student network didn’t kick in and send you a sms, email, twitter or just holler of the last minute change? What can you do to improve your student community. Set up a RMIT Comms Design Class of 2009 on Facebook, or a twitter account it is a small start and its free. Vibrant community and culture just don’t happen, people, individuals and a little effort make them happen.

All the best,

Andrew


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jase,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments and thanks for not using an alias. We didn&#8217;t write this post to have the student who didn&#8217;t turn up or those who attended to make excuses. After attending a range of similar student talks, some patterns are forming and we felt that it better to respond, rather than letting another occasion pass. </p>
<p>Maybe if one stayed at home in bed and played the sick card, one wouldn&#8217;t have been so brutal, yet the visit stats for this post and comments say that my this exercise is worthwhile.</p>
<p>Overall, this common social pattern may underline that lack of structured critical discussion incorporated in communication courses. To our knowledge the School of Visual Art in New York offers one of the only masters course developed address design criticism. Imagine if every undergraduate course had a unit where professional projects are reviewed, discussed and analysed? I know many lecturers informally explore design criticism, yet a formal design criticism unit may assist emerging designers with doing the work and communicating the outcomes.</p>
<p>My design education was a limited one, however one thing that happened is that for two years, five days a week, I shared a studio with fifteen or so designers. Lots of talking took place and it prepared us to talk about our work, life, and discover the group dynamic and the art of conversation.</p>
<p>One pattern is the lack of dialogue, discussion or debate. Many students and professionals seem too shy, aloof, or maybe wary of saying the wrong thing to make a start with a discussion. When I was teaching at Swinburne it was a similar situation. There were exceptions – my German students and Tin&amp;Ed often engaged in lengthy discussions, which made for an interesting and worthwhile sessions.</p>
<p>There is a lot to be gained by bringing to a group a selection of prepared questions, issues or opinions for group discussion. In many instances it is often expected that the speaker kicks off the discussion, when it is the students who know the group better. </p>
<p>Some presenters have a knack for inspiring discussion – like Sagmiester. When you look into why Sagmiester has the knack – you don’t have to look far – his websites, books and presentations have a tone that is open and conversation like and he has had this open approach for years. </p>
<p>Most professional designers have little dialogue – a visit to their website will clarify this. May I suggest to prepare questions prior the session, attempt to understand the group’s dynamic and attempt playful sense of engagement will help the speaker to facilitate a discussion. Queen Elizabeth II was once asked how do you facilitate conversation with so many people. Her response – I meet many men and I have learned to start the conversation with asking them what they do, Men can’t help talking about themselves. Women seem to need no prompting according to HRM.</p>
<p>So in the absence of the studio environment and a design criticism culture:<br />
— try to sit in on forums and session structured around discussion,<br />
— try to develop a dialogue with as many peers as possible, maybe even be social with your peers,<br />
— research the speaker and develop some questions (remember what Queen E said)<br />
— during the session try bring to others into the discussion by inviting peers to comment, disagree<br />
— don’t be afraid of asking the wrong questions or worry about asking the right questions.</p>
<p>Many students seem to be more focused on their life outside university, rather than incorporating design and their design peers in a new chapter of life. What is common with every designer I have encountered is that they have their version of a world of design, a way of living. </p>
<p>Rather than making excuses on this forum for not being at my session, the questions I would be asking include: Why in an era of SMS, email and iphone and Blackberries that your peers or your student network didn’t kick in and send you a sms, email, twitter or just holler of the last minute change? What can you do to improve your student community. Set up a RMIT Comms Design Class of 2009 on Facebook, or a twitter account it is a small start and its free. Vibrant community and culture just don’t happen, people, individuals and a little effort make them happen.</p>
<p>All the best,</p>
<p>Andrew</p>
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		<title>By: Student</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-27716</link>
		<dc:creator>Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 11:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-27716</guid>
		<description>I was one of the 110 students who did not attend your talk. 
We were told in the morning on the day of the lecture that you were sick and could not make it in, so therefore the lecture was cancelled. A lot of the students were very disappointed, myself especially because I was looking forward to hearing you speak.
We only found out that you had actually made it in after it had already finished when someone received an email that was sent 30 minutes prior to the lecture. 
So, not all of us didn&#039;t just not bother to turn up on purpose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was one of the 110 students who did not attend your talk.<br />
We were told in the morning on the day of the lecture that you were sick and could not make it in, so therefore the lecture was cancelled. A lot of the students were very disappointed, myself especially because I was looking forward to hearing you speak.<br />
We only found out that you had actually made it in after it had already finished when someone received an email that was sent 30 minutes prior to the lecture.<br />
So, not all of us didn&#8217;t just not bother to turn up on purpose.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-27659</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 11:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-27659</guid>
		<description>I was the aforementioned RMIT student who brought up the topic of the current economic climate of &#039;doom and gloom&#039;.
At the time, I was trying to sway the conversation towards a more positive light, which ended being the topic of what Andrew enjoys when it comes to his job. He did reciprocate with an enlightening insight into his photographic hobby which I found quite uplifting, myself being a &#039;moonlighting photographer&#039;.
I consider myself to be an aspiring communication designer with conviction to work with like-minded people when I graduate in 5 to 6 months.
So, thanks for the advice posted and expect a dry/witty/generationX application for collaboration soon!!! Peace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was the aforementioned RMIT student who brought up the topic of the current economic climate of &#8216;doom and gloom&#8217;.<br />
At the time, I was trying to sway the conversation towards a more positive light, which ended being the topic of what Andrew enjoys when it comes to his job. He did reciprocate with an enlightening insight into his photographic hobby which I found quite uplifting, myself being a &#8216;moonlighting photographer&#8217;.<br />
I consider myself to be an aspiring communication designer with conviction to work with like-minded people when I graduate in 5 to 6 months.<br />
So, thanks for the advice posted and expect a dry/witty/generationX application for collaboration soon!!! Peace.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Toward Hansen</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-27355</link>
		<dc:creator>Toward Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 13:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-27355</guid>
		<description>Yes, except we don’t respond to comments posted on our website that are lack tact, or breakdown the dialogue. We didn&#039;t write this piece, because we like to read our own material. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, except we don’t respond to comments posted on our website that are lack tact, or breakdown the dialogue. We didn&#8217;t write this piece, because we like to read our own material.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-27250</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 02:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-27250</guid>
		<description>Would following these steps land me a job at pip and co &quot;GUARANTEED&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would following these steps land me a job at pip and co &#8220;GUARANTEED&#8221;?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Toward Hansen</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-27206</link>
		<dc:creator>Toward Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 13:04:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-27206</guid>
		<description>Hi Warren,

Excellent spot.

http://www.hofstede.com.au/text/entry/getting-to-first-base

I think Dom has had similar questions to Andrew from students and lecturers looking for work opportunities. Like Dom, we feel that it is better to spread the word and publish as much of this knowledge to as many students as possible.

Having had been in the middle of the last big recession, Andrew had first hand witnessed how difficult it was to get work and how many people he went to college with who had real difficulty getting work. Dom is a similar age and I suppose this situation brought back old memories.

The email seems to be the primary contact of choice for many applicants and I think it is better to call the situation as we see it rather than not say anything. The volume of email applications and the varying quality — most being average and a rare few good quality, has increased in the two years and the email has become not the best source of applicants, because of the average quality of applicants and below average quality of communication. The relative ease of sending an email is trap for many applicants and it is too easy to compose and send message, and not think of it as a communication like a piece of print or website.

Toward</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Warren,</p>
<p>Excellent spot.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hofstede.com.au/text/entry/getting-to-first-base" rel="nofollow">http://www.hofstede.com.au/text/entry/getting-to-first-base</a></p>
<p>I think Dom has had similar questions to Andrew from students and lecturers looking for work opportunities. Like Dom, we feel that it is better to spread the word and publish as much of this knowledge to as many students as possible.</p>
<p>Having had been in the middle of the last big recession, Andrew had first hand witnessed how difficult it was to get work and how many people he went to college with who had real difficulty getting work. Dom is a similar age and I suppose this situation brought back old memories.</p>
<p>The email seems to be the primary contact of choice for many applicants and I think it is better to call the situation as we see it rather than not say anything. The volume of email applications and the varying quality — most being average and a rare few good quality, has increased in the two years and the email has become not the best source of applicants, because of the average quality of applicants and below average quality of communication. The relative ease of sending an email is trap for many applicants and it is too easy to compose and send message, and not think of it as a communication like a piece of print or website.</p>
<p>Toward</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Warren</title>
		<link>http://peoplethings.com/andblog/getting-a-job-in-design-in-interesting-times/comment-page-1/#comment-27188</link>
		<dc:creator>Warren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 05:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://peoplethings.com/andblog/?p=2565#comment-27188</guid>
		<description>Did I accidentally navigate myself to Hofstede&#039;s blog?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did I accidentally navigate myself to Hofstede&#8217;s blog?</p>
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